Seeking opinions on my dream combo

[clevocortina 1,109]

Hi all I read an article online, about a 418 inch stroker 351 Windsor combo, 670 hp, pump fuel, easy to build at home ect.

 

8k in parts u.s.

 

Between my dads 35 years of mechanical experience and my enthusiasm we could

build the whole thing in the shed.

 

 

My question is, would it be value for money in Australian dollars or would I be better doing a clevo combo?

 

I know this sort of horsepower cost around 22 grand at an engine shop. so 8 grand and a whole heap of elbow grease sounds far better to me, this engine will be for my xr project so Windsor will be kinda cool.

 

 

 

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0702phr_budget_418ci_windsor/

 

 

 

 

[xeeclipse 37]

You are dreaming mate, $8,000 wil buy you pro comp or total shit. $10,000 minimum for the long motor with headers, carb, dizzy and then another $6,000 for a gearbox, auto and tailshaft. 

$16,000 grand for a proper driveline, how do I know? I'm 3/4 of the way through and stuck at the gearbox atm.

[slydog 7,873]

Hey Matty I rate the idea bro...come see us at the Ford Nationals and I'll introduce you to Jarrod Woods.He has a 408 in a Silver Fox XR sedan that made 565 hp at a low 6250 RPM and with Pro Comp cast heads.I shit you not Pro Comp castings.It was built by VIntage Racing services in town here and his car WILL run a very low 11 or 10sec pass as it's prepped with Cal Tracs,3500 convertor,3.9's and a 275 drag radial.His engine really needs more camshaft to use the cubes but it proves for the money your talking it can be done easy enough.

 

You will even love the car cos his work is TOP NOTCH and coming from a insurance assessor you can understand why I guess...

 

 

 

 

At Narandera Rod Run Easter time before we left for GM's place.

[blu xe 825]

Thats one sexy xr right there!  I agree could be done on that coin. As you said engine. Not whole driveline unless you got alot of it kicking round already.

[slydog 7,873]

It is a seriously nice car.And your correct Matty did state ENGINE alone...

[PRO250 1,506]

You are dreaming mate, $8,000 wil buy you pro comp or total shit. $10,000 minimum for the long motor with headers, carb, dizzy and then another $6,000 for a gearbox, auto and tailshaft. 

$16,000 grand for a proper driveline, how do I know? I'm 3/4 of the way through and stuck at the gearbox atm.

 

At what power level is this at? 16k for the drive line what the hell you can build a 9er that will hold down a 1000hp for around the 3k mark these days and a 6k box will hold big number depending on ford holden other glides are the in thing simplle and hold massave numbers for little outlay

 

i go racing with a guy that owns a XE that runs 10s and althow it taken years to get where it is its had less then 15k spent on the hole thing not everythings new but its a stroker and alloys big c10 5000 stall 9er and does not die

 

another guy i go racing with has his corty in the hi 10s with a 4k 302 with alloys a c9 with a 5k stall and 4.11 BW diff   

 

my mate just got his 408 back all the right buts all new 10k and has sheets for 610 horse i was a sceptic but not after seeing it  

[xeeclipse 37]

$16,000 for engine, gearbox and tailshaft I meant. I personaly want my car to hit 300kmh in top gear so manual and 3.27's for me.

 

What can a 408 with 500hp, T56 manual and 3.27's run???? Car will only weigh 1,400kg

[clevocortina 1,109]

You are dreaming mate, $8,000 wil buy you pro comp or total shit. $10,000 minimum for the long motor with headers, carb, dizzy and then another $6,000 for a gearbox, auto and tailshaft. 

$16,000 grand for a proper driveline, how do I know? I'm 3/4 of the way through and stuck at the gearbox atm.

 

Hey Man I was just repeating what I read in the article ( I kinda get excited about engines) and after I added the link I discovered the article was written in 2007 lol  so yeah 8k is fair outdated by todays prices and It is in U.S dollars, also by whole thing I meant engine only carb to pan not whole driveline. the reason it excited me is I like big cube smallblocks that are super tough and can handle big rev's. Which this one can. As I said above I know an engine of that type costs over 20k for a shop to do it. so even if I can build it for 12 - 15k I would be rapt. also because the only clearencing mods needed is some minor grinding out of the block at the bottom so the rods clear, so it can be handled at home and not really farmed out.

 

Hey Matty I rate the idea bro...come see us at the Ford Nationals and I'll introduce you to Jarrod Woods.He has a 408 in a Silver Fox XR sedan that made 565 hp at a low 6250 RPM and with Pro Comp cast heads.I shit you not Pro Comp castings.It was built by VIntage Racing services in town here and his car WILL run a very low 11 or 10sec pass as it's prepped with Cal Tracs,3500 convertor,3.9's and a 275 drag radial.His engine really needs more camshaft to use the cubes but it proves for the money your talking it can be done easy enough.

 

You will even love the car cos his work is TOP NOTCH and coming from a insurance assessor you can understand why I guess...

 

 

 

 

 

At Narandera Rod Run Easter time before we left for GM's place.

That looks very neat sly and that engine sounds grouse. I may have got a little over excited when I read the article it just seems so simple and with the hp/tq figures

how cool would that be to be able to knock that up in the shed? always wanted an engine with the full list of credentials. you know lol, alloy headed, full solid roller, stroker that will rev to 7500.

[clevocortina 1,109]

oh and pump fuel

[xeeclipse 37]

Stroker's aren't meant to rev :/, Sly nows all about tractor motors and RPM. I'm fascinated in knowing what my bucket of bolts will one day be capable of doing. I want to show the high stalled fraternity a thing or two on the track and strip with a good old stick shift

[clevocortina 1,109]

you running a manual dude? that's cool old school top loader with every second tooth ground off so you can do clutch less shifts? or you going to run something more modern?

[clevocortina 1,109]

and yeah I know there not supposed to rev but that sweet noise that comes out of those pipes at that rpm is something you cant beat

[slydog 7,873]

Better tell Branco his his 451small block can't rev than?

[NZXD 2,328]

Strokers will rev, just depends how much money you want to spend. Have a look at the Pavtec site and their 434 Windsor, very expensive but pull 7000+ rpm. They do a 434 complete with a hyd roller cam and 640hp for 16k.

 

You did say 8k in parts alone, I think you would get there, its the machining and prep that soaks up the coin.

 

That XR is tough.

[Ants 6,370]

That XR is tough.

Damn straight.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

mate if you have ever driven a car with 670hp you will realise how serious it is to drive something like that around.... i think an honest 600hp is ample to get you into the low 10s in an XD-F, and realisticly you probably wont need a whole lot more than that, you'll be struggling for traction at that level anyway, big time.

 

now bang for Buck, id say Dions combo is the best going around, he has never had issues with it, and he abuses the living shit out of it constantly, and it runs low 10s in a full street car. cost is probably up around 10-12k, remember a sump alone can set you back over 1k (ask someone whos bought one of ASRs high end sumps), i remember the minor details of his combo if you want i can list them here.

 

as for strokers not revving.... what about a 532ci that revs to 7500? and is street driven whenever its dry enough on a weekend?

 

its easier to do it with a clevo, they have better heads, but the best combo is still a dart block with clevo heads

[PRO250 1,506]

$16,000 for engine, gearbox and tailshaft I meant. I personaly want my car to hit 300kmh in top gear so manual and 3.27's for me.

 

What can a 408 with 500hp, T56 manual and 3.27's run???? Car will only weigh 1,400kg

 

You cant do better for 16k for only 500hp? I priced everything to fit a t56 in my ute last year it was under 5k cheaper if i found a good second hand box as the ones they had where $2500. a 2k 9er will easy hold 500hp

 

so thats about 10k for a engine for only 500hp id be very unhappy with that, my stock stroke clevo makes about 380 400hp and is less then 4grand of engine

[xeeclipse 37]

You cant do better for 16k for only 500hp? I priced everything to fit a t56 in my ute last year it was under 5k cheaper if i found a good second hand box as the ones they had where $2500. a 2k 9er will easy hold 500hp

 

so thats about 10k for a engine for only 500hp id be very unhappy with that, my stock stroke clevo makes about 380 400hp and is less then 4grand of engine

 

I'm looking for factory like drivability, what's the point of spewing out heaps of unburnt fuel at low rpm over an extra 100hp up top? The T56 will offer such a good spread of ratios that it will more then make up for the short fall in hp.  

[Wes 214]

And these threads keep popping up. x amount of hp for x amount of dollars.

The guys who do it are one offs, they are the exceptions to the rule, they aren't the rule.

99% of blokes will never see 600hp in any type of engine for less than 15k engine alone.

If you're going a 6, then that will buy you your turbo too along with your forgies and other bits to make the engine turn.

Forget about building it for less, it is that ever long fantasy people talk about and as mention 1% achieve. Most of us laymen will fork out a lot more for less power.

[Wes 214]

I'm looking for factory like drivability, what's the point of spewing out heaps of unburnt fuel at low rpm over an extra 100hp up top? The T56 will offer such a good spread of ratios that it will more then make up for the short fall in hp.  

The t56 can go to hell with a lot less power. How do you plan on making it strong enough?

Also, if you're after factory driveability, you gotta raise your expenditure. A lot of guys can tune your car to have stupid power at WOT and barely acceptable driveability but if you want that refinement, there are only a few chaps in the country with enough brains and patience to perform a job like that. Most are great at tuning horsepower princesses or brutes on the track but to have something that is ultra refined is limited to a few people.

[slydog 7,873]

Woodsys Falcon engine cost ALOT less than the figures posted here is a TRUE street driven and cruised deal and will run super low 11.0's or high 10's with it's 565hp.It's only hard if you want it to be.if you can't make a big cube V8 go for acceptable money you should give it away.It's so easy to do I wonder why 500hp is acceptable.

 

My x-flows rev to a limited 7200rpm so any motor can be made to rev and do it easily,just don't expect anything to last when you use shit Holley billit fuel pumps that lean out and kill a set of cast pistons then it floods and hydraulic's the engine to brake a piston in the new set.So my warning DON'T use Holley 150gph Billit pumps,they are shit and the best replacement for the same $$$ is a Aeromotive unit.No fuel issues since...but expensive lesson to find out.

 

Aeromotive for the win...

[Wes 214]

Rob, he's a 1%er..... You gotta speak in laymens and general terms otherwise like the old turbo fables that everyone thinks they can build for 2k and how many of them have we ever seen constantly driving more than a week on the road? None of those guys have got their cars together in one piece or have enjoyed them for longer than a month and then thrown them away, sold them for peanuts or given up.

[Tyler06 266]

8k in parts... Yeah i think you could definately build an engine like that albeit maybe with some cheaper second handys these day and i think all parts could come from aus. If you and your dad think you can do it and you do alot of shopping around then go for it mate. Haters are gonna hate and in all honesty the only one putting a damper on your idea is someone that obviously doesnt have the time to read up before he states facts. Machining and such will cost you but if you set a realistic budget and then add another 25% on top minimum then your on the right track. Anyone that has built a Higher than normal HP engine or car knows that. I say good luck and go for it mate. P.S that XR is sick haha.

[slydog 7,873]

Good points Wes and Chris...

[gerg 10,871]

Here's an idea: go bigger in the bore to get cubes. Swinging a crank and rods past 4 inches is asking a lot. Why not start over with a nice Dart 4.125" block? Here's one here in Aus:

 

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com.au/viewitem?itemId=160505733928

 

Sounds expensive but try and find a worthwhile Clevo block that hasn't been punched out or suffered water jacket rust or core shift... Not easy. By the time you do find one and prep it for all that horsepower, you're getting close to the same cost anyway.

 

4V heads are getting cheap as alloys get more popular. They can deliver the goods if given the right treatment. With 4.125 bores, you can fit some serious valves in too. The heads can be modded to fit the Windsor quite easily. There are plenty of manifolds around as well that fit Windsor block/Clevo heads.

 

Stroker kits are very affordable nowadays. Aiming for say 428 cubes, you'll need 4" of stroke, surely there's a crank out there to suit.