Thermoquad on 4.1litre

[Stumps 345]

Been digging through my shed and I found a Thermoquad of a XC 302, im pretty sure it was a manual it has the part number TQ 9091S on it.

 

Has anyone ever tried one of these on a 4.1litre?

 

I'd imagine the stock 302 jetting wouldnt be far off what would be needed for a worked 250.

 

I remember Blue 253's having a quadrajet on them and they went pretty good with those.

 

Would a 250 respond the same? I've seen plenty of holley 600's on 4.1's and they work pretty good, surely a TQ with its smaller primaries would be more economical at cruise and the secondaries would on flow as much as what the engine could use given the air flap restricting airflow to them.

 

Anybody given this a crack?

[Stumps 345]

Guess not..lol

[deankxf 21,128]

6 hours ago, Stumps said:

Guess not..lol

 

what you'd probably find is they are bulky, worn out, not very tuneable and probably not a good selection of linkages to adapt them with. 

 

the 302/351 jetting is probably similar if not the same, as i kept the same one when i did 351 crank and rods into My 302 clevo, and only changed it when it backfired on LPG and blew a chunk out of the plastic body. 

 

they are rated pretty high in CFM, and should be reasonable on fuel and responsive due to the smaller primaries, but when i had mine, i was told to get a quadrajet/rochester from a holden for My XE for keeping it "legal" and they are much more tunable apparently. (ended up fitting a holley instead due to availability, and tuner was saying tuning would be easier, therefore cheaper.)

 

 

[Stumps 345]

the one I have looks alright, I've had it apart and run a straight edge over the body to check for warping, the carb looks like it just needs a kit put thru it, but I'll probably get it professionally done if I decide to use it.

 

I have thought about going the quadrajet route, but Im in the same boat as the thermoquad trying to find someone to tune it...and I'd have to acquire one first.

 

Going the holley route seems the most logical, but which one do I use lol? a 4160 or a double pumper? maybe a 4180 from an 80's GT mustang? what about an economaster? so many choices.

 

I'd assume that the 4150/4160 600 is what most people fit to their modded 4.1's, I've done 350's before and they are very meh, and I have had 4150 on 302's and 351's before and they have worked but been very ordinary on day to day economy.

 

There are always Webers, I have good experiences with the ADM34 (which I have available to me) but it's hardly good for power or an Autolite 2100 1.33 which I'd assume would be slightly better than a 350 holley with better economy.

 

I am hoping to achieve around 250hp from the 2V.

 

the engine currently has a 214 cam fitted and had larger valves fitted.

 

I apologise if I'm asking dumb questions.

[deankxf 21,128]

3 hours ago, Stumps said:

350 holley with better economy.

 

I am hoping to achieve around 250hp from the 2V.

 

the engine currently has a 214 cam fitted and had larger valves fitted.

 

I apologise if I'm asking dumb questions.

 

no such thing as dumb question really, but a 4 barrel with vacuum secondaries would surely be the go rather than squirting 4 barrels every time you pushed the accelerator. 

i'd be finding someone who's got experience with the setup you are planning. 

most people these days are chucking on one of the carb replacement throttle body EFI setups and not having to deal with cold start issues, low signal from big cams etc and able to get a fairly cheap tune because they aren't pulling jets and mucking around under the bonnet anymore (dyno tuners)

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

i have been down the 4 barrel route with the crossflow,and found the 450 d/p from quickfuel or holley is great for a worked crossflow,tried 650 yeah it runs but not really driveable or econamey,tbh stick with a 350 or the  rebuilt webber 34adm.

[deankxf 21,128]

3 minutes ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

i have been down the 4 barrel route with the crossflow,and found the 450 d/p from quickfuel or holley is great for a worked crossflow,tried 650 yeah it runs but not really driveable or econamey,tbh stick with a 350 or the  rebuilt webber 34adm.

 

the 38/38 weber is a bolt on for the crossflow and better for power, but it's not going to be as good on fuel

but the engine Stumps is using is a 250 2V (XB ish engine with the separate inlet manifold) with a 250hp goal.. 

 

[Stumps 345]

I do have an aussiespeed 4bbl manifold for the 2v head as well as the old factory manifold.

 

The ADM would be my default carb to go to as I have a pretty good history with them. But they are limited in the top end with only about 250ish cfm. So a 4 barrel seems to be the way to go, but too many choices lol and not enough info out there on 2V headed setups that make good power and arent crazy like some of the yank setups...in an ideal world triple 1bbl's would be the go...just looks so damn cool, but doesnt seem to do much else.

 

I have been looking at the sniper 2300 efi, but once the fuel system is changed to suit it could get pricey real quick and may not offer a return on the high setup costs for a car that will be driven occasionally....while I'd love to use it as a daily, XB's are too hard to find or repair should it get damaged by some knucklehead in a ranger or hilux driving around Wagga...

 

I can live with the odd cranky cold start...my XB is still less temperamental than my wife of a morning.

[Stumps 345]

I am also considering going the turbo route, but once again if I go blow through crab, what carb to use? do I even need a 4 barrel for 350hp turbo'd or would the ADM do the job, I remember wayyyy back on the old Xfalcon forum a guy had a nice clean XF with a blow through carb setup running an ADM, I'd love to do something similar to that only with the 2V head given how rare they are here in Australia.

 

The other option is just either convert the current engine to a crossflow head or get a crossflow and rebuild it to make that sort of power using one of the many combo's floating around on the net.

 

My interest in the TQ is with the fact that they are very underrated carbs on V8's once they are sorted out and could offer better economy than a Holley can do with similar outputs in the top end due to the decent flow rate. I've only ever seen one on a 4.1 litre once and that was an XD with a Mike Vine turbo kit on it...it went like the clappers and I remember it embarrassing a friends VK SS back in the 90's.....real bad.

[deankxf 21,128]

crossflow block is different to the log engine to my knowledge (aka the head won't swap)

 

the last FEW dyno tuners i've dealt with had grounded me on the HP hunt.. with similar phrases meaning the same thing.. 
IT MAKES WHAT IT MAKES..  otherwise known as.. it's only going to make the sum of it's parts, if the head/cam doesn't flow enough to support a bigger carby, there's no point putting a bigger carby on. for eg. 

 

so you probably need to just either try it and see what happens to some degree. 

 

turbo would solve a lot of issues relating to power limits/flow of NA base.. generally get double the power pretty easily.. just add $$ and less legal than bolt on looking mods. 

[Stumps 345]

20 hours ago, deankxf said:

crossflow block is different to the log engine to my knowledge (aka the head won't swap)

 

 

https://fordsixperformanceforum.github.io/XFheadswap.html

 

It is possible to convert a pre xflow to xflow, not sure if it'd be worth the effort over fitting the 2V head, but I have both available to me, I'm pretty sure if I dig deep in to my collection I have a C2 head some where needing some love.

 

I'm thinking of this for an NA combo

 

I already have the following

 

a fresh 250 + 30thou 

214@50 thou single pattern cam

Freshly machined 2V head with oversized valves.

Aussiespeed 4V manifold

Thermoquad 4V carb jetted for 302 manual.

Pacemaker extractors split at the 2 in to 1 collectors in to a dual 2.5inch system

T5 from XG longreach ute

3.27 diff from same ute

 

I need to get the following

 

Electronic dizzy, I'm thinking of using an MSD 6AL2 with a modified dizzy or getting an ICE ignition kit from Aussiespeed.

3.73 LSD centre for the diff

Not sure if I need street terra roller rockers or not.

 

if Im missing anything let me know.

 

I also have a 2V manifold and a fresh Autolite 2100 2v carb with 1.33in venturi.

And a fresh ADM34 weber carb as well.

 

Looking for advice or ideas

 

 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

i went the path of that msd 6al2 digital and its a pain in the ass you will be forever playing with it doing tune ups,and its a money down the drain ,your other set up in parts looks choice,i used a 214 tighe cam solid and its streetable and race,the ice kit it very expensive too,i would be putting that money into a brand new 465 holley or 450 d/p quickfuel and be done with it,and buy a msd or similar streetfire ignition and lock the timing at a safe level around 24 to 28deg,happy days.

[Stumps 345]

Any recommendations on dizzies?

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

any of the e bay electronics that can be hooked up with the streetfire ignition kit,thats if you want to arc up the spark,or just run a e bay electronic with vac advance and coil kit for $150 will be fine for the street,214 cam wont like the timing down low but you could put a set of springs in it to bring the timing in quicker,most of those dizzy companys now offer a service of re graphing the thing to suit your spec,just call them ,as long as its mild ,a big cam will not like the vac advance as its useless,214 is on the edge of mild so should be ok imo,plenty there on e bay too choose from for maximum $300 spend billet usa 200/250 dizzy,or the dsm 250 pursuit kit,that will be fine imo.

[Stumps 345]

I'm a bit wary of the ebay kits given all the cheap chinese knock offs floating around.

 

The DSM kits look alright but never really heard of them before. Are they cheap chinese crap or considered pretty good?

 

I was looking at possibly converting either the factory dizzy using a pertronix kit or getting one of the xe or xf dizzies that I have modified to suit.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

dsm are sydney based seller,yes they are chinese but a 100% copy of the original bosch and all parts are interchangeable,i must have used at least 10 of them over the years and no problems,also you are gunna be changing your dizzy gear to suit the cam anyway to a nice crow or similar,the chinese gear would be the only thing i would be worried about and once its off on goes the better one.

[Stumps 345]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02AXXTMXanBCjFewbJRxNsXg1xcLP9QExupG5k3h46SqxAf3RRphrHxr57937tg4dFl&id=100064832616948

saw this Yesterday, would be very close that what I'd want to do with a turbo. But if the blower could be wound up to 10 psi, it'd probably come close to the power i'd like to have.

 

Shame CAPA kits are notoriously expensive for the power they produce.

 

Would be very cool however.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

Yep the Aussie speed blower kit looks awsome but 10k ,as much power as a e Bay turbo kit for 3k.it ain't worth it

[Stumps 345]

41 minutes ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

Yep the Aussie speed blower kit looks awsome but 10k ,as much power as a e Bay turbo kit for 3k.it ain't worth it

Yup 100% agree and its a shame  I always wanted a supercharged 4.1 even as a pimplely teenager on my P's back in the 90's cruising around in my XC.

 

I have messaged CAPA about this kit to see what sort of pricing, I'd expect around 7 or 8k from them.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

i know price is ridiculas,even a cheap n20 kit hooked up for a grand would make just as much power.

[Stumps 345]

Hmmmm N2O...now that could be fun...shame its illegal for street use.

[Stumps 345]

Has anybody tried out a Holley 4360 economaster on 4.1's? Being only 450 cfm I'd assume that they would be almost right on the money for a mild cammed 4.1.

[Stumps 345]

Pulled these out of the ute over the weekend got a nice surprize found the diff is an LSD which is handy....also discovered that I'm way too fat and old to be climbing under cars in the cold..

[CHESTNUTXE 7,694]

disc and lsd 28 spline is choice,what ratio is it,and looks like a xg diff

[Stumps 345]

8 minutes ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

disc and lsd 28 spline is choice,what ratio is it,and looks like a xg diff

it's a 3.27 and yes it's out of an XG.

 

I'm trying to figure out what the T5 was from as the ute originally had a 4spd auto in it and was converted to a T5 about 10 years ago by Dellow's.

The number that I have found indicated that the box is from an EB2 V8, but thats just from a google search, gunna have to drown the poor thing in degreaser to find the rest of the id numbers on it.